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Old 05-07-2019, 08:04 PM   #11
TexasChick
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Originally Posted by EeyoreLover View Post
It depends partly on where you want to stay. Some people purchase at multiple resorts to have home advantage at each resort and alternate years between resorts (banking and borrowing points as needed to go every other year, for example). If you only want to stay at RR, then you would need to purchase a direct contract there -- or wait awhile to purchase a resale contract there.
This is us. We own where we like to stay and rotate through them. The 7-month switch is too tough for us traveling during popular times.

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Originally Posted by walnuts24 View Post
Good point. I guess you could eventually buy resale at RR, but that depends on the availability. My feeling is that the reason these new rules are being put in place is that DVC is driving the resale value as low as possible so they can use their ROFR on as much as possible. I think I saw a stat that they use ROFR on about 20-30% of resale now. I wouldn't be surprised if that number is well over 50% for RR.
The main intent is not to make resale value low IMO. Their intent is to drive direct sales by differentiating direct from resale in any and every way possible to make direct look more appealing. What happens in reality is that if resale drops pretty low, and they start buying back like crazy, people start paying more for resale to avoid ROFR. Donít forget one important thing: by the time you go to sell RR, you will probably have taken MANY vacations on those points. It isnít as valuable after every year that passes because there are less years on the contract. The fact that the prices have risen year after year is only because of ROFR because they should be dropping each year. We will all find out together how low the resale value drops, but I highly doubt itíll be catastrophic.
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Old 05-07-2019, 08:10 PM   #12
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Or you could just buy 160 points direct at AKL. You already know that you love the resort, and you would be restriction-free. And if you picked an August, September, October, or December UY, you would get the 2018 points as well as the 2019. Might work with a June UY too, depending on how soon you buy.
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Old 05-07-2019, 08:17 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by ermindy1133 View Post
Or you could just buy 160 points direct at AKL. You already know that you love the resort, and you would be restriction-free. And if you picked an August, September, October, or December UY, you would get the 2018 points as well as the 2019. Might work with a June UY too, depending on how soon you buy.

That's the cycle I am in, but I always end up eliminating AKL direct because I have a feeling I would be just as happy at RR as AKL.

Step 1: Buy Resale at AKL for $104/point, but live with the restrictions of not going to new resorts. ($16,640 - Good Price, but FOMO)

Step 2: Buy direct AKL for $176/point. ($28,160 - Much more expensive, but no FOMO)

Step 3: Just spend the extra $12/point for RR get 13 more years of use. ($30,080 - Not too much more than direct, no FOMO, more years).

I was also wondering if they ever do 'conversions' or if that is going to start becoming a thing moving forward. Say I buy my resale contract now for $104/point and in 5 years from now the cost direct is $195/point at AKL and the resale market/ROFR is around $125/point. Would they ever allow you to 'convert' to a direct owner for the difference. For example, sell them my contract for $125/point and buy it back at $195/point, costing me about $70/point to add the benefits of using the new resorts and get the blue card?

Last edited by walnuts24; 05-07-2019 at 08:23 PM. Reason: Added Question.
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Old 05-07-2019, 08:29 PM   #14
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I'm not going to speak to RR or not. That is personal Choice.

And Disclosure, while we have 5 contracts, all have been purchased resale, 3 of which before any restrictions on resale purchases, and the 4th with jsut the first limited restrictions (VGF). Our last VGF contract has full restrictions since I just purchased in December.

But, it is my experience that a 1BR is roughly double the points of a Studio at every resort based on that resort's point schedule. at 2br is roughly 2.5 the studio.

So, with 125 points, if that is a week in a Studio, I assume a 1br is about 250 points for a week. THat means you will be borrowing your first few years. Lets say until 2nd child it 5. That means 5 years of borrowing.

Assuming you get granted 2019 points at purchase then you will use 250 points in (2019 and 2020 points) in 2020 for your week. Then, when you go in 2021 you will use 2021 points and borrow 2022 points. That means you are fully borrowed out after your first 2 years. IF you wanted to go back in 2022, you would only have 2023 point available. You would have to stay 3 nights only maybe 4 if you buy one time use points. OR skip 2022 and wait till 2023 where you would then borrow again.

So, from that standpoint, you are short point the first 5-6 years if you want to go every year.


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This seems to be scandalous to say on this forum, but I am leaning towards buying Riviera points direct. At this point my biggest issue is the point chart for the hotel, specifically 1-BR and 2-BR units. Right now we have our son who is 2 and another on the way. As the kids get older our room needs are going to change.

I really want to stick to 125 points for my purchase with a plan to vacation every year or every other year. When the kids are really young, a 1 BR is really convenient because we can put them in their room at bed time and get a sitter to go to dinner/fireworks. In a few years, a studio would be more than sufficient as we can all share 1 room. 125 points gets us about a vacation every year in a studio and or every other year in a 1 BR. The cost per point at other hotels is significantly cheaper per night for 1 or 2 BR units. I am reading a lot of stuff on this forum that the 7-month booking window issues are becoming horrendous.

I have so many questions:

1. The guide told me about a 24 point purchase you can make every year for $19/point to get extra stays. I would be relying on this during certain times of year because of the point total. What has been your experience with this?

2. Looking back on your original purchase, do you ever wish you just stretched out a little more for the extra points? Financially, we can make 150 work, it would just be a little tighter for a month. The yearly fees wouldn't be a big impact on us financially, more the initial costs. However, I am worried that we would feel like we have to go every year to use points. Do you ever think that you bought too many points?

3. What happens to all the 'extra' points people end up with? I haven't ever used the system, but it seems to me that it is hard to use the exact number of points every year. What happens to the 4 or 5 points you have left over? Or does everyone figure out a way to use every single last point? Can you just keep banking and banking leftover points year after year? Or is it common to just end up overbooking and buying a few 1 time use points to cover an extra night?
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Old 05-07-2019, 08:39 PM   #15
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As you mentioned in your original post, another consideration is the point chart at RR. You will need more points to stay there in a 1 bedroom villa than you would at AKK, for example.

Personally, if we were looking to purchase DVC now as a new buyer, I would probably buy a resale contract for the bulk of the points and then buy a 75 point direct contract for the member benefits.
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:19 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by walnuts24 View Post
That's the cycle I am in, but I always end up eliminating AKL direct because I have a feeling I would be just as happy at RR as AKL.

Step 1: Buy Resale at AKL for $104/point, but live with the restrictions of not going to new resorts. ($16,640 - Good Price, but FOMO)

Step 2: Buy direct AKL for $176/point. ($28,160 - Much more expensive, but no FOMO)

Step 3: Just spend the extra $12/point for RR get 13 more years of use. ($30,080 - Not too much more than direct, no FOMO, more years).

I was also wondering if they ever do 'conversions' or if that is going to start becoming a thing moving forward. Say I buy my resale contract now for $104/point and in 5 years from now the cost direct is $195/point at AKL and the resale market/ROFR is around $125/point. Would they ever allow you to 'convert' to a direct owner for the difference. For example, sell them my contract for $125/point and buy it back at $195/point, costing me about $70/point to add the benefits of using the new resorts and get the blue card?
Have you toured the demo rooms? Unless you love the resort, location, use of gondola transportation... I am not sure that $12k or $14k would be worth the difference in price.

We bought 100 points @ AK via resale with the plan to stay in a studio every year, maybe skipping a year sometimes to "catch up" with the borrowing. That went out the window immediately because we wanted to go at a specific time to see our son march with his HS band, and the resale closing time pushed us to about 6 months booking, and we ended up in a 1BR. Turns out we LOVE having the extra space and kitchen/laundry in the room, so we always want a 1BR or better now. We had to skip the next year because we used 2 years points right away. We rented points for this years trip, and bought more points for next years use. We decided to buy a different resort, and alternate the contracts - 2 years points points from AK contract one year, 2 years points from the other contract the next year.

This gets us 1BR every year. We have 2 different resorts, so 11 month window with 2 choices. We decided to buy @ CCV because we love the wilderness lodge, and the difference in resale vs direct for the contract we wanted was only $6k. We decided that was worth it to get the AP discount...I don't think (for US) that $12k or more would have been worth it.

But, maybe it will be for you. My advice is buy more points than you think you'll need, and buy at a resort you'll be happy staying at. If you love the idea of Riviera with the access to 2 parks, then maybe that's worth it for you even with the premium price.
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Last edited by cpnkirk; 05-07-2019 at 09:30 PM.
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:21 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by walnuts24 View Post
This seems to be scandalous to say on this forum, but I am leaning towards buying Riviera points direct.
I hope that's not true, but if it is, we can be scandalous together! Scandalous sounds fun, and it makes us more interesting.


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Originally Posted by walnuts24 View Post
1. The guide told me about a 24 point purchase you can make every year for $19/point to get extra stays. I would be relying on this during certain times of year because of the point total. What has been your experience with this?
We've bought one-time use points for a couple of trips but they're honestly kind of a pain. As others have said, you can't make a reservation with them until the 7-month mark. You have to call to buy them, and the CMs wanted us to buy them for a specific reservation. Also, they don't show up online so you have to call if you want to modify your reservation...and if you try to modify online instead of calling you will suddenly not have enough points to make that new reservation (yes I learned that one the hard way)!


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Originally Posted by walnuts24 View Post
2. Looking back on your original purchase, do you ever wish you just stretched out a little more for the extra points? Financially, we can make 150 work, it would just be a little tighter for a month. The yearly fees wouldn't be a big impact on us financially, more the initial costs. However, I am worried that we would feel like we have to go every year to use points. Do you ever think that you bought too many points?
...too many points....

Seriously, though, I believe in breaking my contracts up into smaller ones, like TexasChick recommended. If you buy three 50-point contracts, then end up thinking 150 is too many.......sorry ....then you can sell 50 and keep the rest. And if you're forced to sell (things happen), small contracts sell faster at higher prices.


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Originally Posted by walnuts24 View Post
3. What happens to all the 'extra' points people end up with? I haven't ever used the system, but it seems to me that it is hard to use the exact number of points every year. What happens to the 4 or 5 points you have left over? Or does everyone figure out a way to use every single last point? Can you just keep banking and banking leftover points year after year? Or is it common to just end up overbooking and buying a few 1 time use points to cover an extra night?

...extra points....

Seriously, though, yes, you can bank year after year - you just use the oldest ones first whenever you're making a reservation, which is actually how the DVC online booking tool is designed to work (though you can override it).
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:22 PM   #18
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I was also wondering if they ever do 'conversions' or if that is going to start becoming a thing moving forward. Say I buy my resale contract now for $104/point and in 5 years from now the cost direct is $195/point at AKL and the resale market/ROFR is around $125/point. Would they ever allow you to 'convert' to a direct owner for the difference. For example, sell them my contract for $125/point and buy it back at $195/point, costing me about $70/point to add the benefits of using the new resorts and get the blue card?
No conversions. They do not buy back contacts from us at all. I wished they did so we could sell them our 200 OKW for like 125 CCV but if they did buy back they'd likely give $50 for the OKW while selling the new for, what is RR now, $188. But if you buy a resale now, it will keep those restrictions.
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:26 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by walnuts24 View Post
That's the cycle I am in, but I always end up eliminating AKL direct because I have a feeling I would be just as happy at RR as AKL.

Step 1: Buy Resale at AKL for $104/point, but live with the restrictions of not going to new resorts. ($16,640 - Good Price, but FOMO)

Step 2: Buy direct AKL for $176/point. ($28,160 - Much more expensive, but no FOMO)

Step 3: Just spend the extra $12/point for RR get 13 more years of use. ($30,080 - Not too much more than direct, no FOMO, more years).

I was also wondering if they ever do 'conversions' or if that is going to start becoming a thing moving forward. Say I buy my resale contract now for $104/point and in 5 years from now the cost direct is $195/point at AKL and the resale market/ROFR is around $125/point. Would they ever allow you to 'convert' to a direct owner for the difference. For example, sell them my contract for $125/point and buy it back at $195/point, costing me about $70/point to add the benefits of using the new resorts and get the blue card?
Or buy the AKV. Take the $12K in savings and rent points to stay at any new resorts for the time or two you might rotate thu them. OR, essentially the same thing but rent out you AKV points and rent or pay cash for the new resorts for the times you want to stay there. And leave the 12K invested elsewhere or paying MFs for many years.

If you plan to try and stay in many of the locations your not going to be at the new resorts too often because there are a lot more existing to try.

DVC has left the option open to implement some sort of pay to qualify non-qualified points. It doesn’t exist now and no guarantee they will but they could.
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:37 PM   #20
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2. Do you ever think that you bought too many points?

3. What happens to all the 'extra' points people end up with? I haven't ever used the system, but it seems to me that it is hard to use the exact number of points every year. What happens to the 4 or 5 points you have left over? Or does everyone figure out a way to use every single last point? Can you just keep banking and banking leftover points year after year? Or is it common to just end up overbooking and buying a few 1 time use points to cover an extra night?
No. I never thought that we bought too many points. We are always borrowed.

If you have left over points, you would bank them and use them first the following year. Don’t miss the banking deadline. They will expire at the end of the UY they are banked into. If you are not going that UY year, be sure that you don’t have banked points. Better to borrow and stay an extra day.

Last edited by Crafty; 05-07-2019 at 10:09 PM.
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