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Old 07-13-2018, 11:28 AM   #81
carolina_yankee
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Originally Posted by PSULion22 View Post
It will be interesting to see what happens after Episode IX is released. Sure Episodes VII and VIII did well financially, but TLJ was not as well received despite its earnings. Solo bombed. It appears that as Kennedy expands her influence, the movies and their reception suffer. This is likely because the content strays further and further from what was known before, relying more heavily on Kennedy's creativity. So what will the critical and financial response to the movies be after the Skywalker Saga ends - when all of the content for those movies and all others will come solely from what she created?
I would argue that the current IP owners are the creators - that is the creators of the current content - but I totally get your point about the distinction between Lucas and Kennedy/Disney.

I didn't have a problem with TFA, I loved Rogue One, and I haven't see TLJ because I hate middle chapters of trilogy and being left in a bad place until the final film comes out. That said, I don't know if TLJ does that. I've avoided all knowledge of it! Also haven't seen Solo, so don't know how bad of a mess it really is compared to the canon or the expanded universe.

I do think there has to be tons of quality material out there from the various book authors that going forward Disney would do well to make films of the best books or concepts rather than create more stuff.

I wonder, though, is the Star Wars universe as interesting as the Star Trek universe, or does Star Wars truly rest on Eps IV, V, and VI and everything else is either serving a niche audience or beating a dead horse? Star Trek has central themes that seem to carry over into anything they do. Star Wars - how often can you do "good vs. bad?"

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Old 07-13-2018, 12:21 PM   #82
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I would argue that the current IP owners are the creators - that is the creators of the current content - but I totally get your point about the distinction between Lucas and Kennedy/Disney.
For sure. As of 2012, Kennedy/Disney are the creators. My comment is only about the purge and alteration of content they didn't create. We're definitely on the same page here.

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I didn't have a problem with TFA, I loved Rogue One, and I haven't see TLJ because I hate middle chapters of trilogy and being left in a bad place until the final film comes out. That said, I don't know if TLJ does that. I've avoided all knowledge of it! Also haven't seen Solo, so don't know how bad of a mess it really is compared to the canon or the expanded universe.

I do think there has to be tons of quality material out there from the various book authors that going forward Disney would do well to make films of the best books or concepts rather than create more stuff.
TFA was intended to be a "re-quel". It was a reboot of the story by retelling it as a continuation of the original. Was TFA a pretty close copy of ANH? Absolutely, it was supposed to be. I thought they did a pretty good job of it, actually. As I said, on Kennedy's Nerdist interview, she mentioned how kids and young adults relate to the characters from the prequels and the animated series more than they do the original (according to their market studies). It's what was present while they grew up and they like the more action base and quicker cuts. So TFA was wholly intended as a means to bring the original trilogy back to these people by remaking the movie with the new tone and feel.

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I wonder, though, is the Star Wars universe as interesting as the Star Trek universe, or does Star Wars truly rest on Eps IV, V, and VI and everything else is either serving a niche audience or beating a dead horse? Star Trek has central themes that seem to carry over into anything they do. Star Wars - how often can you do "good vs. bad?"

Dirk
So I have absolutely no idea about Star Trek. But, imo, the SW movies are the lamest stories of the bunch. I've much more enjoyed the books I've read than the movies. Even the book for A New Hope is better than the movie. There's more detail and nuance. The Star Wars universe has a spectacular villan/adversary named Thrawn that is sadly being vastly underused. What's interesting is he appears in both the old and new canon. Kennedy went to the measures of having his story rewritten and expanded nearly immediately after her appoinment, by the original author no less. Why not use him? The trilogy that links Episodes VI and VII is better than what we've gotten so far. Rogue One wasn't as good as the book that precedes it - Rebel Rising. There's an Ocean's Eleven caper type story called Scoundrels that includes Han, Chewie, and Lando (and the reason for Lando's "You've got a lot of nerve showing up here, after what you pulled" in ESB) in the old canon that would have made a great movie. And in none of those is there really that true evil villain. Even Thrawn is doing things out of a sense of duty more than evil.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:58 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by PSULion22 View Post
TFA was intended to be a "re-quel". It was a reboot of the story by retelling it as a continuation of the original. Was TFA a pretty close copy of ANH? Absolutely, it was supposed to be. I thought they did a pretty good job of it, actually. As I said, on Kennedy's Nerdist interview, she mentioned how kids and young adults relate to the characters from the prequels and the animated series more than they do the original (according to their market studies). It's what was present while they grew up and they like the more action base and quicker cuts. So TFA was wholly intended as a means to bring the original trilogy back to these people by remaking the movie with the new tone and feel.
Huh. That's really interesting. I had no idea that was the case (remember, just the movies!) and it does present a interesting quandary that had to be solved, I guess.

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So I have absolutely no idea about Star Trek. But, imo, the SW movies are the lamest stories of the bunch. I've much more enjoyed the books I've read than the movies. Even the book for A New Hope is better than the movie. There's more detail and nuance.
I think any book is free to explore themes far better than any movie can, and it's safer for authors to take a risk. Of course, I know it's all corporate and heavily edited, but still.

So, question: Whatever happened to Allen Dean Foster's Splinter of the Mind's Eye? I think that was the first Star Wars book after ANH and it was the only I've read (apart from the movie's novelization). I suspect it had to be kicked to the curb pretty quickly since Luke and Leia had a bit of romance going on there. Wonder why nobody thought to tell ADF that they were siblings?!

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The Star Wars universe has a spectacular villan/adversary named Thrawn that is sadly being vastly underused. What's interesting is he appears in both the old and new canon. Kennedy went to the measures of having his story rewritten and expanded nearly immediately after her appoinment, by the original author no less. Why not use him? The trilogy that links Episodes VI and VII is better than what we've gotten so far. Rogue One wasn't as good as the book that precedes it - Rebel Rising. There's an Ocean's Eleven caper type story called Scoundrels that includes Han, Chewie, and Lando (and the reason for Lando's "You've got a lot of nerve showing up here, after what you pulled" in ESB) in the old canon that would have made a great movie. And in none of those is there really that true evil villain. Even Thrawn is doing things out of a sense of duty more than evil.
It's summer. I might be well served to check out a book or two and just immerse myself in fantasy!

Dirk
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Old 07-13-2018, 03:27 PM   #84
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Huh. That's really interesting. I had no idea that was the case (remember, just the movies!) and it does present a interesting quandary that had to be solved, I guess.
Yeah I don't remember where I heard it. Possibly kennedy's Nerdist interview, but it could also have been JJ Abrams or someone else connected to TFA. Her interview with the Nerdist is definitely worth checking out if you're ok with the host being Chris Hardwick, given the recent allegations.


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I think any book is free to explore themes far better than any movie can, and it's safer for authors to take a risk. Of course, I know it's all corporate and heavily edited, but still.
I definitely agree here.

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So, question: Whatever happened to Allen Dean Foster's Splinter of the Mind's Eye? I think that was the first Star Wars book after ANH and it was the only I've read (apart from the movie's novelization). I suspect it had to be kicked to the curb pretty quickly since Luke and Leia had a bit of romance going on there. Wonder why nobody thought to tell ADF that they were siblings?!
I never heard of it. Now I'm curious. lol


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It's summer. I might be well served to check out a book or two and just immerse myself in fantasy!

Dirk
There are a lot of books, obviously. If you want something involving the original characters and not too in depth, check out "Scoundrels". If you want something related to the original trilogy, but with new characters also, check out the "Aftermath Trilogy" (connecting the Battle of Endor to the Battle of Jakkuu). "Rebel Rising" was good (about Jyn Erso's time with Saw Guererra before Rogue One). "Leia: Princess of Alderaan" is supposed to be good, but I haven't gotten to it yet. And if you like more thinking books, get into Thrawn. He's an uber genius tactician that continually outwits his adversaries. The "Thrawn trilogy" is from the original canon, and takes place after the Battle of Endor. It's very heavy on the original characters, especially luke, leia, Han, Chewie, and Lando. If 3 books is going to be too many, look at "Thrawn" from the new canon. It takes place during the rebellion from most an Imperial point of view. It's very technical and strategic. I enjoyed it a lot. All of the Thrawn books are by Timothy Zahn. You can't go wrong reading anything by him. And as I had mentioned before, consider the audiobook versions. The performer, Marc Thompson, is out of this world, pun intended.
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Old 07-13-2018, 04:06 PM   #85
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Yeah I don't remember where I heard it. Possibly kennedy's Nerdist interview, but it could also have been JJ Abrams or someone else connected to TFA. Her interview with the Nerdist is definitely worth checking out if you're ok with the host being Chris Hardwick, given the recent allegations.


I definitely agree here.

I never heard of it. Now I'm curious. lol
Stuff I never knew:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Splin...e_Mind%27s_Eye

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Splinter of the Mind's Eye was the first ever Expanded Universe novel to be written and published. Its author, Alan Dean Foster, had ghostwritten Star Wars: From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker, the novelization of Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope, and this early involvement in the Star Wars universe gave Foster the opportunity to write Splinter.

According to an interview with Foster in Empire magazine, the novel had been written to be filmed as a low-budget sequel as a fallback plan in case Star Wars hadn't been a huge success. This accounts for the book taking place almost entirely on a fog-shrouded planet. Additionally, Harrison Ford was not signed for the sequel as of the writing of the book, which is why Han Solo does not appear in it. Though Foster was granted a great amount of leniency in developing the story, one requirement was that a lot of props from Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope could be reused when filming the new story. According to Foster, Lucas' only request upon inspecting the manuscript was the removal of a dogfight in space undertaken by Luke and Leia before they crash-land on Mimban. Presumably, this sequence would have cost too much money to film.

Read more.

Quote:
There are a lot of books, obviously. If you want something involving the original characters and not too in depth, check out "Scoundrels". If you want something related to the original trilogy, but with new characters also, check out the "Aftermath Trilogy" (connecting the Battle of Endor to the Battle of Jakkuu). "Rebel Rising" was good (about Jyn Erso's time with Saw Guererra before Rogue One). "Leia: Princess of Alderaan" is supposed to be good, but I haven't gotten to it yet. And if you like more thinking books, get into Thrawn. He's an uber genius tactician that continually outwits his adversaries. The "Thrawn trilogy" is from the original canon, and takes place after the Battle of Endor. It's very heavy on the original characters, especially luke, leia, Han, Chewie, and Lando. If 3 books is going to be too many, look at "Thrawn" from the new canon. It takes place during the rebellion from most an Imperial point of view. It's very technical and strategic. I enjoyed it a lot. All of the Thrawn books are by Timothy Zahn. You can't go wrong reading anything by him. And as I had mentioned before, consider the audiobook versions. The performer, Marc Thompson, is out of this world, pun intended.
Aftermath Trilogy might be a good place to start and branch out from there.

Dirk
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:49 PM   #86
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Zahn’s books were always my favorites as well. So I’m glad to hear here’s contributing to the new canon. I was pretty disappointed when they created the ‘Legend’ label. Losing characters like Thrawn (who’s back now), Mara Jade, Talon Karrde, Corran Horn, the Solo twins, etc was such a shame.

I always thought the Thrawn arc would have made a great movie Trilogy. Or Corran Horn’s story as a ‘Star Wars Story’ trilogy.

I’ve been trying to be understanding about them not wanting people spoiling the new movies and wanting surprise and intrigue. And to be fair there were several clunkers in the old books. But I still have a hard time accepting how they pushed aside so many great characters and story lines.
Other than Splinter of the Mind's Eye, Timothy Zahn's five books are the only other Star Wars books I own (hardcover for the trilogy, softcover for the latter two).
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Old 07-19-2018, 01:23 PM   #87
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Thanks for posting. It makes me very, very sad that this movie did poorly at the box office, comparably. I LOVED it. I still can't believe it didn't do better and will have this reputation as a box office bomb. I thought it was better than Ep VII and VII, and as enjoyable as Rogue One, but in a totally different way.


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I thought all the acting was great. I will say that I felt this movie was not 'epic.' It didn't have that kind of epic feel. I thought it kind of played like a great TV series. We are big fans of Clone Wars and Rebels, so I didn't mind that. I sure hope they'll do more, especially a Boba Fett movie.

I think marketing and promotion was off, and it just should've been held until December. Maybe it was VIII backlash, but I don't think so. I think it was the young adult/ millenials not going to see it in droves as they did the others.

That's just a real shame, because all of the cast were wonderful. While I would have tweaked a few things (esp Solo's ending scene on Savareen) but I just LOVED the backstory they gave to Lando, Solo, Chewbacca. The fact that they reference whey Lando pronounces Han's name that way is classic. I have been wondering about that since Empire. I was impressed by all the references to non canon *****, video games, etc. great stuff for the old timer fans.
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