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Old 01-08-2019, 04:44 AM   #1
mustinjourney
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Default Ramblings of a Drunk Attorney

Okay....now that everyone has gone through the 28+ pages of shit on the other thread...let's actually break down what the "OFFICIAL" release actually states.

"Effective January 19, 2019, only Members who purchase directly from Disney will be able to use their Vacation Points at the 14 existing Disney Vacation Club Resorts or future Resorts—such as Disney’s Riviera Resort or Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge. Resale contracts purchased for the existing 14 Disney Vacation Club Resorts will only be able to exchange Points into those 14 Resorts.

This change does not apply to contracts purchased prior to January 19, 2019. Contracts gifted to family members will continue to have the same Resort access as before the ownership transfer."

We ALL ASSUMED that this language essentially would **** Riviera resale purchasers. However....take the emotion away. Albeit, I am at least 5 scotches in at this point (go Clemson!).

Reread the above language.

It does not preclude Riviera resale from only Riviera.

At best, it only precludes them from the 14 existing OR future resorts.

Stay with me here.

Again -- I'm a few drinks in and it's late...

I'm curious as to why they didn't say "and" instead of "or." Clearly, they intended that all of us legacy owners should be able to use our points at both the 14 resorts AND future resorts should we have enough points. Which means, that "or" is likely a mistake -- since we can clearly use our points at BOTH.

Assuming they messed up that language, then the next line is important, since it states that "resale contracts purchased for the existing 14 Disney Vacation Club Resorts will only be able to exchange Points into those 14 Resorts."

This begs the question -- this last statement only discusses what happens with the current resorts and does not preclude the future resorts from being able to trade into the current system.

The first sentence would seem to preclude future resales of Riviera from any benefits, but that can't possibly be correct. Think about it. If that is correct, then it would be impossible for a resale Riviera contract to be used for the 14 DVC resorts OR any future resorts.

ERGO -- that interpretation is invalid.

Notwithstanding the above, as any first year law school student knows, if there is any ambiguity, it is interpreted in favor of the party that DIDN'T draft the contract.

Again -- this is the ramblings of a drunk attorney.

Late at night.

But I "think" this might be where DVC is actually going.
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Old 01-08-2019, 08:56 AM   #2
disney65
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I did not wanted to speculate too much, hence I said (in other thread), I will wait for Disney verbiage on new restrictions.
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Old 01-08-2019, 09:14 AM   #3
KyleG
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The language for Riviera isn't there yet because it is not on sale yet. Why did this warrant a new thread?
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:02 AM   #4
mustinjourney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleG View Post
The language for Riviera isn't there yet because it is not on sale yet. Why did this warrant a new thread?

Bc the other thread is a million pages long.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:49 AM   #5
rowrbazzle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mustinjourney View Post
Bc the other thread is a million pages long.
Also, it's a great title for a thread.
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:17 PM   #6
fuzzylogic
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The use of "or" is fine. The phrase "Would you like some coffee or cake?"...

...Does not mean you must choose either coffee or cake and that is all you may have. It means you may have coffee, or cake, or both. "Or" is not by default an exclusive-or. If Disney meant one or the other but not both, that would have been said. Otherwise it's common English.

On the fallacy aspect, it would be over-interpreting to conclude that resale buyers of future resorts cannot spend those points anywhere. It's definitely an interesting logic analysis, to say...

* As of X, only direct purchasers may use at Orig14 or Future
* Resale for the Orig14 can only use at the Orig14
* Therefore, Resale of the Future resorts cannot be used anywhere

However this is not stated at all, and is just implying it by omission.

My take is that it is unspecified where a resale of a future resort can or cannot trade into.

The 1st statement is affirmative. Direct buyers MAY use them for Orig14 or Future. I think that's clear. If you buy direct, anywhere, Orig14 or Future, you can use the points anywhere. The 2nd statement is negative and specific to one group. People who purchase resale for the Orig14 will be limited to only the Orig14. It makes no statement at all about resale of Future being limited.

This is not a legal document tho, so to analyze common English like this will just send you down a rabbit hole drawing unintended conclusions. The purpose of this press release is to make it known that if you buy resale after 1/19 (the old resorts) you will no longer get the future resorts. It's a resale-killer move. Pushes direct benefits over buying resale.
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:24 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzylogic View Post
The purpose of this press release is to make it known that if you buy resale after 1/19 (the old resorts) you will no longer get the future resorts. It's a resale-killer move. Pushes direct benefits over buying resale.
Only if you want to stay in the newest and shiniest resorts. The original 14 already include all of the monorail resorts, the Epcot resorts, and AKL. I’m perfectly content with that. Of course, my points will be grandfathered, so I still get the newest and shiniest, but with the wide variety available in the current “club,” this restriction wouldn’t prevent me from buying resale. I’m probably not the only one.
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:59 PM   #8
JCinWonderland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleG View Post
The language for Riviera isn't there yet because it is not on sale yet. Why did this warrant a new thread?
because drunk attorneys are entertaining.
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Old 01-08-2019, 01:08 PM   #9
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Until the documents come out for Riviera we really know nothing of the finer details.
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Old 01-08-2019, 01:28 PM   #10
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I read this as such:

1) if you are already an owner prior to Jan 19, 2019 you will be able to use your points at 11 months at all existing and furture resorts at 11/7 months respectively

2) If you are a direct purchaser of any resort points you will be able to use your points at 11 months at all existing and furture resorts at 11/7 months respectively

3) if you are a resale purchaser of any legacy resort (14 of them) after Jan 19, 2019 you will only be able to use your points at the 14 legacy resorts.

4) If you are a resale purchaser of Riviera you will only be able to use your points at Riviera.

What am I missing?
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